La Stampa interviewed the NATO secretary general Jean Stoltenberg who illustrated the situation of the International Organization in the face of emerging and future challenges, with a detailed focus on Russia and China. Prudent about the Turkish intervention in Syria but determined to denounce Russian interference in Europe and to ask the allies for greater efforts to face China and equip themselves with cyber defenses.
The Alliance looks to the London summit in December to accelerate the "greater transformation since the end of the Cold War". Erdogan's Turkey first bought the S-400s from Russia, then invaded Northern Syria attacking the Kurdish militias that had defeated Isis and now signs agreements with Putin on Syria.
What is your approach to an ally of this kind?
“The situation in Northeast Syria is serious. I was in Istanbul a few days ago to express my strong concern, especially for the risk of prejudicing the results obtained against Isis. But at the same time Turkey is the ally that has suffered the greatest number of terrorist attacks and therefore has legitimate fears, not to mention that it is also the ally that hosts the most refugees ”. What can be a way out of the Turkish-Syrian crisis? "There have been positive developments with the US-Turkey declaration and the consequent reduction in violence. We need to build on this to aim for a political solution in Syria and put an end to nasty massacres. NATO supports this US commitment".
What will the foreign fighters be, can the allies take them back?
“Foreign fighters are part of the problem we face. NATO has no direct responsibility for it but a more coordinated approach is needed. And in this sense, NATO is the place to do it, also because we exchange data against terrorism ”. Isis is far from defeated: from the Sahel to Afghanistan the threat remains the same.
How does the jihadist threat change?
“Isis is a global challenge and concerns our entire generation. In Syria and Iraq we defeated the Caliphate as a territorial entity, freeing millions of people thanks to the US-led intervention but Isis remains present in Syria and Iraq: this is why we support the local security forces. And for this we remain in Afghanistan: we must prevent the Caliphate, defeated in the Levant, from resurrecting in Kabul. Isis focuses on Afghanistan, as confirmed by the recent attack on a mosque ”. In short, the time has not come to put an end to the Afghan mission begun in response to 11 September 2001… “No, it has not arrived. All allies pay a high price to stay in Afghanistan. But leaving would involve a much higher price because we would jeopardize the progress made in the fight against terrorism, women's rights and freedom of the press ”.
What do you think of the negotiations between the United States and the Taliban?
“We support them but they are blocked because the Taliban must accept an agreement capable of guaranteeing peace. Our military presence serves this purpose and, in this context, the Italian mission is crucial. I have visited your troops: they are great professionals and they also have, allow me to say, the best cooks ». Isis also reappears in Libya, where the civil war is endemic.
Can NATO contribute to greater security?
“In Libya the situation is very difficult. We support the UN efforts for a political solution. At the same time the allies are ready to help the Libyan government to defend itself ”. Italy sees migrants as a key issue of security in the Mediterranean.
Is there a role for NATO on this front?
“We play two important roles with regard to migrants: on the one hand we try to address the causes with our presence in Afghanistan, Iraq and other Isis-risk areas such as Tunisia and North Africa. If these states are more stable, we are safer, allowing us to prevent the departure of migrants. On the other hand, we have a presence in the Mediterranean with the 'Sea Guardian' mission as well as in the Aegean Sea to enforce the EU-Turkey agreement ”. More allies denounce Russian interference in their respective domestic policies.
In what terms is a common threat?
“In several NATO countries we have witnessed Russian interference in political life to weaken democratic institutions also thanks to disinformation, social media and cyber attacks. We must take this threat very seriously. NATO does this by increasing cyber defenses, soliciting greater public attention and countering such propaganda. But the best recipe against disinformation is correct information, based on true facts. For this, states have a responsibility to react to lies on social media. The best tool to do this is free and independent information ”.
Do you believe that Russia has a specific strategy to use interference in order to make NATO democracies implode?
“From what we have seen, they want to interfere in our democratic processes. This is why we must defend ourselves ”.
How are you doing it?
“First of all by revealing what the Russians are doing. As Dutch intelligence did by revealing the attempted infiltration into the International Organization Against Chemical Weapons, or as done with the attempted coup in Montenegro. There has been interference in many countries ”.
Is this why it calls for a stronger cyber defense of NATO?
“Cyber defense serves to protect our networks, to create it we need joint exercises and NATO has a center of excellence in Tallinn, Estonia, where we have carried out the largest cyber exercise ever. Allies must learn from each other how best to defend themselves ”.
Will you discuss this at the London summit?
“Yes, because it has to do with the modernization of NATO. It's the biggest leap since the end of the Cold War: with new forces and new command structures. To also defend civilian infrastructures because the threats are hybrid. More intelligence, more cyber defense, more resources and more resilient civilian structures are needed. I am thinking for example of 5G. We are confident that an agreement will be reached on the matter at the meeting of NATO defense ministers ”.
How to remedy the cyber differences between more advanced countries, such as Great Britain, and others that are less, such as Italy for example?
“NATO is there to help each other. In many areas, Italy leads us: from missions abroad, from Kosovo to Afghanistan, to the air police, to Iceland with the F-35s. Italy participates in cyber exercises and invests in cyber. We have to help each other ”.
How can NATO maintain its leadership in hi-tech development in the face of China's challenge?
"Joining to act and invest together. NATO has always had leadership in hi-tech and has helped us in security: we must maintain it even in the face of the challenge of the most disruptive technologies such as artificial intelligence, atomic systems, biotech, cyber offensive. All this will change the defense system as did the industrial revolution. That is why we must also meet the challenge by using the technique of disarmament negotiations. And then there are investments: spending more means developing new technologies, in a coordinated way to be safer and avoid erecting barriers that could divide us ”.
Is Chinese 5G technology a threat to NATO?
"It's a challenge. China has the second military budget in the world, they invest in advanced technologies and new precision missiles - strategic and medium-range - so Beijing must enter the architecture of international disarmament. China does not violate the existing disarmament agreements because it is not a party to them, except the Treaty against proliferation ”.
Do you think that at 70 years after birth, NATO has its most difficult challenge in China?
“For historical reasons, NATO has focused on the USSR / Russia but now the global balance changes due to Chinese growth. We want an open relationship with Beijing because it is a great economic opportunity for many allies but at the same time there are challenges. Nobody wants NATO to go as far as the South China Sea but it is China that comes close to us: in Africa, in the Mediterranean, in the Arctic and in cyberspace. In one way or another we have to face this scenario ”.
Looking at the London summit in December, what do you expect from the Allies to cope with Russian interference and Chinese technologies?
“I expect them to confirm NATO as the strongest alliance in the world. We must stick together and adapt to a changing world. We are going through the greatest transformation of NATO since the Cold War and we must face the challenge of emerging technologies ”.