On 3-4 December, the celebrations in London of the 70th anniversary of NATO and tensions between the leaders of the 29 member states do not subside. The president of the United States Donald Trump it no longer wants to "subsidize" Europe. Trump wants EU countries to spend at least 2024% of GDP on defense by 2 (Italy is stuck at 1,18%), while French President Emmanuel Macron has defined the Alliance as being "brain death”Suggesting a“ strategic relationship ”with Russia.

Then there is Turkey which could vote against a defense plan for the Baltic states and Poland unless NATO recognizes the Kurdish YPG militia as terrorists. This is unlikely given that the YPG helped defeat the Islamic State.

Regarding the future role of NATO, the summit will ask a group of "wise personalities" to make suggestions, but they will not report until the next summit at the end of the 2021. Then the news of these last hours that Turkey has handed Al Baghdadi to Trump, in exchange for a piece of land north of Syria.

The secretary general of NATO, the Norwegian Jean Stoltenberg, intervened in an interview published by Repubblica to reassure everyone.

"As always, we will be able to overcome divisions and make the decisions necessary for our safety. The European Union cannot replace NATO, it cannot defend Europe alone".

Thursday Stoltenberg met Macron in Paris and does not seem to have convinced him about the health of NATO.

Maybe the Alliance won't be brain dead, but doesn't it find it politically paralyzed?

"NATO is doing more now than in the last few decades. Obviously there are differences that should not be underestimated. There are different opinions among allies on the north of Syria and on the groups active in that region. This is an undeniable reality that will not prevent us from doing much. Indeed, I expect leaders in London to take important decisions anyway, such as updating the action plan against terrorism".

You argue that future European defense must be integrated into NATO, but why should the Union not go it alone when it is not consulted by Washington or Ankara on the Turkish attack on Syria?

"Most of the time we agree, other times we don't, but that doesn't mean we don't consult. I appreciate the EU defense efforts so much that I will work with Ursula von der Leyen and Charles Michel to further increase cooperation between Europe and NATO which is already at unprecedented levels. However, the EU cannot replace the Alliance and European unity cannot replace transatlantic unity, especially after Brexit. 80% of NATO defense spending comes from countries outside the Union, geographically Norway, Turkey, United Kingdom, Canada and the USA are important for the defense of the European territory. Any attempt to remove Europe from North America will not only weaken NATO, it will divide Europe. The EU simply cannot defend Europe alone. I agree with Angela Merkel: European defense is not an alternative to NATO, but serves to strengthen the European pillar within NATO".

If Brussels wants to build its defense it is also because it no longer believes Donald Trump in the USA

"Trump's words matter, but the facts are even more important. The US Congress expressed very strong bipartisan support for NATO and Trump himself reiterated his support for the Alliance. Since the end of the Cold War, the US has gradually disengaged from our continent, but now it is returning with an entire brigade, with equipment and investments and in the coming months 20 soldiers will arrive for the largest exercise in the last 25 years. All of this demonstrates American involvement in Europe".

Do you think China represents a threat to NATO like Russia? Will the fact that Italy joined the New Silk Road break the transatlantic unity towards Beijing?

"I do not see an imminent threat to our ally, I would speak instead of strategic challenges with a more unpredictable and uncertain situation. The fact that China is growing opens up opportunities and challenges that we must face together since with Beijing the size of the interlocutor counts a lot".

Did you appreciate Macron's willingness to include the French arsenal in any future non-proliferation agreement? Should China do it too?

"Certainly we must find ways to include China in any future nuclear control agreement, but how and when it is too early to say. Beijing is investing heavily in new nuclear capabilities, has ballistic missiles capable of reaching Europe and America, high-precision weapons and hundreds of new medium-range missiles. We must find the instrument for greater control of its armaments. As for France, I would be careful to interpret the words of Macron, I think that Paris still has to define its position".

In 2019 Italy increased its military spending by 0,01%: how do you judge our operational and financial contribution to NATO?

"Italy gives great support to our missions in Afghanistan, Iraq, Kosovo, contributions with naval assets and air police in Iceland. But it is clear that I expect an increase in Italian investment in defense. We need it to face the challenges of the present and I am pleased that the Allies will have increased their military spending by 2016 billion for the period 2024-400"